During the time that Ishmael spends with the RUF, his lieutenant makes the following statement: "We are not like the rebels, those riffraffs who kill for no reason" (p. 123). Is this true? Why or why not? Are they different because they believe differently? Or are they the same even though they fight on the opposite side?Further: What does the lieutenant's statement reveal/indicate about war?
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No this is not true. Let me start by saying the rebels had a reason for killing all the people that they did. The rebels made up the RUF(Revolutionary United Front) who's goal was to overthrow the government and gain control of Sierra Leone. There for the rebels had a reason. The Navy had their reasons as well, which were to protect themselves and seek revenge. Personally, I think they could have gone about a more civil way to gain what they wanted or at least a less violent one. I think that the RUF and the Army are a lot alike in different ways. What both groups are trying to accomplish is different but they are alike in the ways such as; how overly brutal they are to each other, how they force their captives to fight or they kill them, and how mentally unstable they all are from participating in these disgusting acts. The lieutenants statement indicates that no matter what side of a war you are on, your no better or worse then your rival side. Im sure the RUF lieutenant told his fighters the same thing. Both sides have stooped to the same level of brutality and sickness.
ReplyDeleteJoe Pemberton
Although the government soldiers believe they are not like the rebels they are exactly the same. Although they have different goals they each use brutal and savage ways to get what they want. The process of doing what you think is right is as important as what is produced from your actions. So no matter if the rebels and the government soldiers have different goals they are the same because they are both cruel and even stoop to the level of drugging young children. What the lieutenant said proves my point even further. He thinks its right for the government soldiers to kill the rebels because they are the bad guys. But, in actuality the rebels believe the same thing about the government soldiers
ReplyDeleteJoe
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with you on the fact that the rebels and the government soldiers are alike. You have some great ideas and I believe you are spot on. I was kind of confused though when you started talking about their goals. I am not sure if that really added anything to your post. when you say the rebels had a reason for killing those people it almost sounds like you are on their side. Next time you might want to make that statement a little more clear.
I believe that the rebels and the government are very similiar. tehy rebels are killing to overthrow the government in which they do not believe in and the government is killing to overthrow the rebels. both groups are fighting for what they believe in. they both are killing for reasons but in a way they are different for the reasons they are killing people and the things they believe in. however they are the same because they are fighting for what they believe in they are just on different sides. it seems that people in war take one side and become bias to one side and fail to realize that there are two sides to every story and also how the two groups could be very similiar.
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteI agree with many of the things you say but not to that extreme. i do believe that they are both cruel however the rebels seem worse than the government. also i do not think that they are "exactly" the same. however i do agree with what you said about how teh government thinks that the rebels are the bad guys but really the rebels think the same thing about the government.
The Lieutenant's statement could only be considered true through one way: because both their goals or reason for fighting are different. Apart from that, they both pretty much act the same, except that they both are targeting different people: each other. In reality, they are very much alike because they both attack villages and civilians for ammunition and food, although they are innocent; but the case of the army is different from that of the RUF because the army is fighting because of revenge. But still, they are both pretty much the same considering the way they fight each other.
ReplyDeleteI think that the lieutenant's statement indicates that in war, there are good people and bad people. But just because both sides fight the same way, it doesn't mean that they each are fighting for the same cause.
Maria Korah
Katie,
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you say, especially how they can be similar because they both are fighting for their own beliefs, yet they are different because of the beliefs they are fighting for. I also agree with you on that people get biased towards their own sides, and that they don't look at other sides. But have you considered the possibility that they are also very similar because they both are fighting pretty much like savages and raiding even civlians houses, who didn't even do any harm to either of the groups? I think that that is a very important point that makes them similar.
Maria Korah
I think government soldiers and rebels are alike in killing people and fighting but their main goal is different. Soldiers kill rebels for their country and to revenge what they had done to people but rebels did a lot of things with no reason or explanation. Even though soldiers and rebels have different goal, but at the same time their attitudes toward each other is almost same.
ReplyDeleteLieutenant’s speech indicates that they are good but rebels are bad. Because rebels kill people for no reason but they kill rebels for their country. He thinks they did good thing and they are not same because both sides have different aspect.
The government soldiers and rebels were the same in many ways. They may have had different goals for this war, but they still participated were very violent. They both were cruel to their enemies, raided villages, and were destructive. They also both enlisted child soldiers. The rebels did take the violence and destruction to a greater extreme.
ReplyDeleteThis quote shows that no matter how bad war gets, people will still believe that they are on the right side.
I believe that the statement made by the lieutenant is completely false. Whether it is the right reason or not, the rebels have a reason to kill. We discussed the RUF in class and it is clear in the text of the book that their motives are to overthrow the government. ^Last time i checked, this was a reason.
ReplyDeleteThe two opposing forces are obviously different because they believe differently. But that doesn't validate the lieutenant saying that the rebels had no reason for killing. They are also alike because of the fact that their best interest is to eliminate eachother from the face of the planet.
The lieutenant's statement reveals that in a war, each side is convinced that they are the "good guy", meaning they will try their hardest to bend and twist people's thoughts and words to make it known that they are right and their opposition is wrong. When the lieutenant says that the rebels kill for no reason it just proves that it is a big deal to him to make it clear that he is not at fault here.
Maria,
ReplyDeleteI liked what you said about the difference and something in common between soldiers and rebels. Both soldiers and rebels have different goals and reasons for fighting but the way that they fight is pretty much same.
Johnny,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you thinking that the government and rebel soldiers were alike, but they were not exactly the same. If this was true then they would be on the same side, no? You say that they are exactly the same, but then you go on to say that they have different goals, so im not really sure which point you're trying to make: are they the same or are they different?
of course, the government and the rebels, are different in that they are fighting for different reasons and have different goals. however, I completely disagree with what the lieutenant said when he mentioned that he is not like the rebels and they are "riffraffs." This might seem contradictory with what I said earlier but what I was saying was that of course they are going to be different in some ways, because they are on different sides, but still they are the same in every other aspect. both sides are brutal and seek only violence which, as we have established, is not cool. They kill who they have to and even some are simply in their way and they bot kidnap little boys, manipulate them, and turn them into fighting machines for personal. Both sides are simply inhumane and blood thirsty are different not in their actions but in their reasoning behind these actions.
ReplyDeleteI find the lieutenants comment simply humorous because it has a real view into war. It shows how ignorant and blind people war that they can't even see how similar they are to the other side. They are so filled with hatred and seek only blood that they don't realize that there is but a slight difference between them and the "riffraffs" they have been trained to hate.
I completely agree with Ayesha. She is right when she says that the two sides are different for their views and reasoning but the lieutenant is still completely wrong. The two sides, whether they like or not, are indeed very similar. Also, she is right when she said that people like to think that they are always right and are on the right side in war. The lieutenant's statement clearly indicates this and proves how ignorant people can be in war.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the rebels are similar to the government soldiers. Even though both sides have slightly different goals and reasons behind their acts, their intentions funnel down to one similar idea...to kill the opposition. Both armies have committed savage crimes. On page 122 it states, "We also attacked civilian villages to capture recruits and whatever else we could find." These acts by the government soldiers can definitely be compared to those committed by the rebels. Both military groups have the same intentions to invade these towns. I think that the lieutenant's quote reveals that leaders will say that their respective side is better than the opposition in order to gain trust and belief from their soldiers that they are the "good" side.
ReplyDeleteLee Johnston
Heyin,
ReplyDeleteI disagree with you when you said that the rebels kill for no reason and the government is the "good guy." In war, I believe that, mostly, there is not good guy and no bad guy. I don't see what makes the government any better that the RUF if both of them kill brutally and take in children-soldiers. Also, I believe that the rebels had a reason for killing: to overthrow the government and, of course, rebel. Now is this a just reason? I don't know, but it is a reason nevertheless. Also, the government didn't fight for their country. they fought to prevent the rebels from taking over the country which could be seen as simply selfish. They didn't want to give up power to some filthy citizens with weapons.
They are different because they are fighting for different things and they also have different beliefs. They are also the same. They both are killing each other and just because they are on opposite sides does not mean that they still are not similar. They both have the goal of destroying each other.
ReplyDeleteI think that when the Lieutenant says this it shows how each side think they have the right views and they think what they do is right and their enemies are wrong.
I think that the statement is mostly false. Both the government soldiers and the rebels kill in such a savage manner. Both sides also use vicious tactics and child soldiers. The only difference that I can see, and this may be revealed later on in the text, is that the rebels seem to harm civilians on purpose whereas the government soldiers kill them as colateral damage. I think that they are not different because they believe differently, but because of their goals for Sierra Leone. The manner and hatred that they have for each other, as well as the drug use and utter inconsideration for human life proves that they have much of the same mentalities but are on different sides. The statement reveals how many of the soldiers are essentially persuaded into hating the enemy so as to function as a soldier, maybe a sign of utter ignorance.
ReplyDeleteGabriel,
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with your comment stating that the two sides are definitely going to have their differences, but that they are the same in every other aspect. Both sides are committing violent acts. If they had no differences, they would be fighting together instead of against each other.
Lee Johnston
Lee,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you when you say what the quote indicates. I definitely think that leaders in war tend to make themselves seem like the good side to instill hope in their soldiers and make the soldiers want to fight for them because they are "the good side."
Yours Sincerely,
Gabriel Molina
I agree with Gabriel disagreeing that the rebels kill for no reason. The rebels have a goal for the country and many of them believe that what they are doing may be in the best interest for the people of Sierra Leone. Too add, I see how you can believe that there are no "good" and "bad" guys in war when you are not involved. But if you lived during this war, you would probably respect one side more than the other. These opinions are often influenced by which side has more power local to where the person lives. Notice how Ishmael was convinced by the government soldiers that the rebels were the cause of all his problems and the death of his family.
ReplyDeleteAlex,
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with what you said about how the rebels were the same. YOu also made some good points when you talked about the similarities. When you mentioned they had different goals I think that the reason they had some of the same goals in the sense that they were out to kill each other. The reasons they are fighting this war are different.
These two sides are obviosly different. They have two completely different ideas and goals. However lets take a closer look. Are they really that different? I know they have diffent ideas, but think about it. The men on both sides are both fighting for what they believe in. In this way they are the same. So they are not just completely different. Lets take the civil war for example. Both sides thought they were right and fought for what they believed in, but their ideas were totally different. This is the same situation. So i will say they are different, but at the same time they are alike. War brings out the worst in people, and we are beginning to see that in this book. JD Tomlinson
ReplyDeleteThis is obviously not true. Both sides are the same. They both spill unnecessary blood and brainwash young children. Also, they both use the same weapons, gasoline, and harmful drugs. they both kill citizens and soldiers alike and feel no remorse for their brutal actions.
ReplyDeleteThe lieutenants statement reveals one of two possible things, a) he is extremely stupid and ignorant and actually believes his own words or b) he is sly and manipulative and wants his soldiers and the civilians who are listening to think that they are doing the right thing.
-Matt
i forgot to mention what i thought about the leiutinant. I believe he is like a motivational speaker. He tells his troops that they are the good people and the enemy is bad. He does this to make the troops more motivated and to reinforce that they are doing the right thing. JD
ReplyDeleteI believe that, though both sides are fighting for different reasons, it does not matter. The point is that both sides are killing innocent people and tearing apart a country. When the RUF first formed, their slogan was "No More Slaves, No More Masters. Power and Wealth to the People." (A goal which would be achieved by overthrowing the established government in Sierra Leone) This doesn't sound like a slogan from an organization that would go on to kill thousands upon thousands of people. The government's purpose for starting to fight also sounded great: "Let's overthrow this radical movement." From hearing these two things, you would see good in both sides. But, in the end, it does not matter WHY the two started fighting. It only matters how far they went to achieve their goal. And both took it too far by committing countless murders and atrocities that you only see in your nightmares. For this reason, both the RUF and the government are equally BAD.
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteLet me start by saying i agree with some of the things you said such as how the rebels think that the army is killing for no reason. Next, I understand where your coming from and i'm sorry for the confusion. All i did is state what i see as facts for both sides and in no means meant it to look like i took a side. When you were talking about my post and the "goals" of both sides you said, "I am not sure if that really added anything to your post." The goals that i listed were to prove my point that the quotation that the lieutenant made was inaccurate. The lieutenant said his army is not the same as the rebels because the rebels kill for no reason. The rebels killed people so they could try and overthrow the government and take control of Sierra Leone. And the army kills try and protect there villages and to seek revenge.
Joe Pemberton
I forgot to include that the Lieutenant's statement reveals how blind each side is to their own hypocrisy. Both are committing the same crimes and shedding innocent blood. Who cares why they are doing it? The point is that they were doing it.
ReplyDeleteExample: If I were to chop off my hand because I thought it was ugly, I would still be left with one hand. And if I were to chop off my hand because I wanted to eat it, I would still only have one hand.
(I know that was a terrible example but it's the best I got. :P)
Lee,
ReplyDeleteI fully agree with what you said, when it comes down to it, both sides are attempting to crush each other and both sides have committed heinous crimes.
Yours sincerely,
Matt Robinson
Matt i respect you as a person, but i'm not in love with your answer. Try to think a little deeper. Are these two groups exactly the same. Sure they both kill each other with the same tactics. Wow how long did that take you to figure out. Its war there arent that many differences. So you look at why they are fighting and their reasons. Which are TOTALLY different. So these two groups are not the same.
ReplyDeletethat was JD
ReplyDeleteThis statement is false. However, they are different because of their different sides of the war, but that doesn’t mean they are completely diverse. They have the same interest, which is to destroy each other. Other ways they are similar include savage killings and the use of child soldiers. The Lieutenant’s view of the RUF is wrong because they in fact “kill for no reason” as well. His statement indicates that each side thinks they are doing the right thing. They truly believe they are better than the other and are nothing like the enemy when really, their actions are exactly the same but just fighting for different causes.
ReplyDeleteJD,
ReplyDeleteJust because their reasons for fighting are different doesn't mean that they are really that different at all. If you are doing the same things to get what you want, it doesn't matter WHY you are doing those things. It just matters that you're doing them.
...That was terribly convoluted. Just refer back to my hand-chopping-off comment. :D
No of course it is not true that the rebels fight for no reason. They have their own reason for their own cause, and just because it is different than that of the lieutenants or anyone for that matter does not mean that it is false. The rebels clearly dislike the government at present, so they are trying to create a new government that is more likable for the rebels. Everyone should be entitled to their own beliefs, which should be untainted by coercion. The rebels and the government military are not different one bit. Even though they have different beliefs, there actions are the same. They kill without remorse and without thinking. War has driven them to what may have been unthinkable in their lives previously. War is a very intriguing thing. In almost every war radicals warp or exaggerate the enemies views and actions to manipulate the views of those who stand neutral, in order to gain support. Lieutenant clearly reveals this in his rant about the rebels.
ReplyDeleteGabriel,
ReplyDeleteIt seem like everyone has the same opinion, so I guess I will agree with you. I liked how you said that they are different because of their different goals and sides. I also like how you said they were the same in their brutality and use of child soldiers. I also liked how you mentioned the hatred between the groups in your response to the lieutenant's quote.
Sincerely,
Alex Slater
P.S.
Are you bringing your wii to YIG because connnor says he is not.
Gabriel,
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you said about the Lieutenants statement. I like that you said that each side is ignorant in how they believe they are doing the better thing. Each side really is the same and they aren’t accomplishing anything. All they are really doing is killing innocent people and not their enemy.
JD,
ReplyDeleteBoth sides are only fighting so that they will have power and be in control of the government. Is that so different? Also, the boys on both sides are not fighting for what they believe in but rather for revenge. Not once in the book has Ishmael given us any reasons for him being in the army other than because he had no choice and to avenge his family. You then tried to say that their reasons were TOTALLY different but u failed to give even one example of their differences. Next time please use evidence.
Yours sincerely,
Matt Robinson
Ayesha,
ReplyDeleteI agree with your statement that in war each side believes that they are the good side. They will warp and twist everything that the opposing side does in order to make it seem they are "good" even though they might be doing similar actions. This is called hypocrisy and is not favored by most people of today.
I think that it is true. The young boys were lead to believe that by killing rebels, they were somehow avenging the horrible death of their parents. I think this means that they are different to the rebels. While the rebels kill mercilessly, with no real reason, Ishmael and his friends all kill for the death of their family and loved ones.
ReplyDeleteEllyn,
ReplyDeleteI think that the boys were led to believe that they were killing to avenge the deaths of their loved ones. In reality, they were just the government's tools. I'm sure the rebels were telling their boy soldiers to kill the government to avenge the deaths of THEIR families. Both sides are equally sick an twisted.
and*
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ayesha. People always want to be right. I think in both of their cases, they believe what they are doing is good. Since Ishmael and his friends were so young and went threw so much, the soldiers could convince them that killing was right
ReplyDeleteEach side is both similiar and different with the other so i cant really agree or disagree with what the lieutenant said. They are similiar because both sides are fighting and both sides are very violent. They are both very savage and both use the same methods of violence to get what they want. On the other hand they are different because of what they are trying to accomplish.
ReplyDeleteI think that the lieutenants statement shows that whatever side is fighting, both in war and other situations, they will always think that what they are doing is right, which makes sense because they wouldnt be fighting if they didnt think that what they were doing was right.
Matt,
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you said about how each side is the same because of all the similiarities in the way they fight. Such as the way that each side takes children, uses the same weapons, and killed very savagely, but I dont agree that they are completely the same with absolutely no difference. This is because both sides had different goals that they wanted to accomplish.
Every group that has fought in a war is similar to one another. If the group has nothing left to do, they start killing people and burning villages. No one fights a horrible war if they don't believe in what they are fighting for, or at the very least believe strongly against the other side. That is was this quote is showing. Of course he is going to say that, he probably believes it, and even if he didn't it would get his troops excited for their cause and will get trust in the cause.
ReplyDeleteHaving children fight a war, just or unjust, it puts the group in a category, desperation. It doesn't matter what the cause is, when young boys are being brain-washed, it puts the government in the exact place the RUF is. Neither are fighting for the people's security, or a brighter future. They are fighting for power over the country. That is the same in my eyes.
Matt, I agree with everything you said about them being the same, but there are differences too. They are fighting against each other because they believe different things. So they are not just simply the same. They do have more things in common than not.
ReplyDeleteKristi
I think that the RUF do kill for a reason. So far into the book, they haven’t gone around pillaging random villages. They only take back what was theirs to begin with. But sometimes, they do kill random people with no reason. Ishmael Beah took his gun and shot at everything that moved, this means he did not care whether he was killing civilians. They are different because they believe in different things. The lieutenant’s statement reveals that soldiers often lose sight of their goal in long wars. They get so caught up in fighting that they don’t really know what they are fighting for anymore, they just want to kill and fight. The RUF and the rebels are similar, they are very violent, but they have different beliefs and that is what separates them.
ReplyDeletewang
Alvin, the rebels do have a reason to kill, to win the war. But they have gone to random villages to kill random people. The RUF didn't know Ishmael's family, but they still killed them. They had no personal reason to kill them. It was random.
ReplyDeleteI agree with peter about how each side is similar and dissimilar to each other, because they are savages but they are different because they have different beliefs. The RUf and the rebels both use extreme violence to achieve their goals. And they both kill innocent bystanders, they recruit and train new soldiers. But they believe in the opposite thing.
ReplyDeletewang
I think that the rebels and the navy are participating in virtually the same acts of violence and brutality, but they are both trying to reach different goals. The rebels are murdering innocent civilians as an attempt to overthrow the government in Africa. The navy/government soldiers are killing to overthrow the rebels. The navy soldiers would not be killing in this fashion if it wasn't for the threat of the rebels. I do feel that the government soldiers are using the young boys unfairly. Even though they are in a "war" traumatizing these boys into performing murderous acts is completely uncivilized. These two sides are not completely different because they are fighting in the same violent fashion, just trying to reach different goals.
ReplyDeletekristi
ReplyDeletethe rebels also recruit young boys to patrol in special units, killing and maiming civilians in villages.
Peter,
ReplyDeleteI agree on your statement on how both sides are fighting for different reasons, but they are both fighting in the same way. I disagree on what you said about the lieutenants. Not all of the war officers could feel that way. They might not support the cause which they are fighting for but are performing the job and duty because it is essential for their survival.